Results 1 to 25 of 44
Hybrid View
-
18th January 2010 23:10 #1
-
18th January 2010 23:20 #2Asus CH6H|Ryzen 1800X@4.1GHz|4xBLS8G4D32AESTK@3666MHz 14-19-12-36-58-1T|GB GTX1060 3GB OC|MP510 960GB|SS-1000XP|CM STACKER STC-T01-UW1
Thermochill PA120.2+PA120.3+PA140.3|Yate Loon 5xD12SH-12+3xD14SH-12|Laing DDC 2+Toshiba DIYINHK|EK DDC X-Top v2+EK Reservoir|EK Supreme HF #6
-
18th January 2010 23:35 #3Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Ëåúðèòå â ñúâðåìåííèòå äúííè ïëàòêè ñà îêîëî 10. Ïðè íÿêîè ëàïòîïè ñà îòãîðå.
Edit: êúì ñåïòåìâðè 2008: "12-layer PCB motherboard" ïðîèçâåäåíà îò Gigabyte
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/10195/...obo/index.htmlLast edited by perlsite; 19th January 2010 at 21:43. Reason: Ïðåìàõíàòè ÑÀÌÎ èçëèøíèòå íåùà, êàêòî è "ïîäîáðÿâàíå" òîíà íà òåìàòà.
-
18th January 2010 23:41 #4
-
18th January 2010 23:47 #5
Ñúâðåìåííèòå äúííè ïëàòêè ñà 4 è 6-ñëîéíè. Íàé-íîâèòå â íÿêîè ñëó÷àè ñà 8-ñëîéíè, êîãàòî èìà áåçóñëîâíà íóæäà îò òîâà, òúé êàòî ãè îñêúïÿâà èçëèøíî. Åòî àêòóàëíèòå è âñúùíîñò íàé-ñëîæíè çà ïðîåêòèðàíå äúííè ïëàòêè íà Intel ñ X58 ÷èïñåò ñ êîëêî ñëîÿ ñà:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/8434/37/During a chat with one of the motherboard manufacturers we were told that X58 motherboards will be no less than six layers, and might even need eight layers. The reason for this is the triple-channel memory configuration, as it brings with it at least a couple of issues when it comes to motherboard construction.
First of all, it's a matter of getting the traces down, six DDR3 memory slots uses a lot of traces on a motherboard and this requires extra layers. The other problem is that there will be signal leakage if the extra layers aren't used, which will cause all sorts of problems, including instability and data loss.
Most motherboards are made using a four or six-layer layout these days, although generally it's only workstation motherboards that use six layers due to cost. It's possible to make a four-layer X58 motherboard and if you've seen Intel's reference design, then you'll also know what the limitation of a four-layer motherboard is.
Using less layers means that the motherboard will support limited memory configurations so that you either get stuck with the Intel 3+1 solution for triple-channel, or you have to move down to four slots and dual-channel, both unlikely to be popular choices with consumers.
Time will tell how this problem will be solved, but as of right now there's no easy solution and Intel is trying to work with the motherboard manufacturers to come up with a clever solution to the problem. Considering that each extra two layers add 50 percent cost to the PCB manufacturing, we could end up seeing some very expensive X58-based motherboards if this problem can't be solved.Last edited by rager; 19th January 2010 at 00:17.
Asus CH6H|Ryzen 1800X@4.1GHz|4xBLS8G4D32AESTK@3666MHz 14-19-12-36-58-1T|GB GTX1060 3GB OC|MP510 960GB|SS-1000XP|CM STACKER STC-T01-UW1
Thermochill PA120.2+PA120.3+PA140.3|Yate Loon 5xD12SH-12+3xD14SH-12|Laing DDC 2+Toshiba DIYINHK|EK DDC X-Top v2+EK Reservoir|EK Supreme HF #6
-
18th January 2010 23:54 #6Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Àç òè ïîêàçâàì, åäíà ðåàëíà äúííà ïëàòêà, êîÿòî å ñ 12 ëåúðà, îò ðåàëíà ôèðìà îò ïðåäè ìàëêî ïîâå÷å îò ãîäèíà!
Àêî íÿêîé ìîæå äà ïðîèçâåäå äúííî ñ 4 èëè 6 ëåúðà òðÿâà äà ãî ïðèçíàÿò çà ãåíèè (Åäèò: î÷åâèäíî ñúñ 6 ëåúðà èìà äúíà. Çà 4-ðè âñå îùå ñå ñúìíÿâàì
)
Òåçè êîèòî ñà ïèñàëè âúâ http://www.fudzilla.com/ íÿìàò ãðàì èäåÿ êàê ñå ïðîåêòèðà è ïðîèçâåæäà äúíî, âåðîÿòíî íÿìàò è òåõíè÷åñêî îáðàçîâàíèå.Last edited by perlsite; 19th January 2010 at 21:45. Reason: Ïðåìàõíàòè ÑÀÌÎ èçëèøíèòå íåùà, êàêòî è "ïîäîáðÿâàíå" òîíà íà òåìàòà.
-
19th January 2010 00:00 #7×îâåêî, ïðåäè äà îáÿâÿâàø êîé êàêâî ãîâîðè, ïðîó÷âàé ñúáåñåäíèöèòå ñè.
Originally Posted by perlsite
Òóê âèæäàì êàê ïðåïîäàâàø óðîöè çà ïðàâåíå íà ïëàòêè íà ÷îâåê, êîéòî
òîâà ðàáîòè, äîðè çà óëåñíåíèå íà ïóáëèêàòà ñè ãî å íàïèñàë â ïðîôèëà.
×åòè, ïðåäè äà ïèøåø, ÷å ñòàâà ñìåõ èíà÷å.
-
18th January 2010 23:48 #8Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Íå, õîáè ìè å äà ïðîåêòèðàì PCB è çíàì ÊÎËÊÎ ëåñíî å çà íåùî íå êîé-çíàå êàêâî äà ñòèãíåø 4 ëåúðà, êàêâî îñòàâà çà äúííà ïëàòêà ñ áåçóìíî ìíîãî ïðîâîäíèöè. Òîâà êîåòî âèæäàø êàòî ïèñòè íà top è bottom ëåúðèòå.. ïðåäñòàâè ñè îùå êîëêî èìàø âúâ âúòðåøíèòå ëåúðè, ñâðúçàíè ïîìåæäó ñè ñúñ via-s. ×åë ñúì, ÷å ñå ïðàâÿò íåâåðîÿòíè òðèêîâå çà äà ñìúêíåø ëåúð/äâà îò îïðîâîäåí board, êúäåòî ïðîñòî íåâèæäàø êàê ìîæåø äà íàìàëèø ëåúðèòå.
-
18th January 2010 23:54 #9
-
18th January 2010 23:55 #10
Ïðåäëàãàì äà ïðî÷åòåø ìíîãî áàâíî è íÿêîëêî ïúòè êàêâî ñúì öèòèðàë ãîðå, à îñîáåíî ÷àñòèòå â êóðñèâ. Äúííèòå ïëàòêè ñà 4-ñëîéíè. 6-ñëîéíèòå ñà ñðàâíèòåëíî ìàëêî ñúîòíåñåíè êúì 4-ñëîéíèòå, à 8-ñëîéíèòå ñå ïîÿâèõà ñ Õ58 äúíàòà â êðàÿ íà ïî-ìèíàëàòà ãîäèíà, ò.å. ïðåäè ìàëêî ïîâå÷å îò ãîäèíà. È íå âñè÷êè Õ58 äúíà ñà 8-ñëîéíè, à äàæå ìîãàò äà áúäàò 4-ñëîéíè, ñúñ ñúîòâåòíèòå îãðàíè÷åíèÿ.
Asus CH6H|Ryzen 1800X@4.1GHz|4xBLS8G4D32AESTK@3666MHz 14-19-12-36-58-1T|GB GTX1060 3GB OC|MP510 960GB|SS-1000XP|CM STACKER STC-T01-UW1
Thermochill PA120.2+PA120.3+PA140.3|Yate Loon 5xD12SH-12+3xD14SH-12|Laing DDC 2+Toshiba DIYINHK|EK DDC X-Top v2+EK Reservoir|EK Supreme HF #6
-
19th January 2010 00:03 #11Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Êîëåãàòà LUBO_1, òâúðäè, ÷å èìà. Íåêà òîé äà îáÿñíè êàê ñå ïðàâè îïðîâîäÿâàíå, òàêà, ÷å äà ñå ãàðàíòèðà åëåêòðî-ìàãíèòíà ñúâìåñòèìîñò, êàê îòäåëíèòå êîìïîíåíèòè ñå ðàçïîëàãàò, ÷å äà íå ñè âëèÿÿò åäèí íà äðóã ïðè ïðîòè÷àíå íà âèñîêî÷åñòîòíè òîêîâå, êàê ñå øèéëäâàò, è äà ñå ãàðàíòèðà ìàêñèìàëíà ïðîèçâîäèòåëíîñò (âèñîêà ÷åñòîòà), êàê ñå ïîëàãàò ïèñòèòå, ÷å äà íå ïîëó÷è âëèÿíèå è äà íå ñå ïîëó÷àâàò ñìóùåíèÿ.. è ò.í. è ò.í. Çàùîòî ïðîáëåìà èçîáùî íå å ïðîñòî äà îïðîâîäèø íÿêàêâè êîìïîíåíòè èëè ïúê äà êóïèø ñêúïè êîíäåíçàòîðè èëè ïúê äà îõëàäèø 2 èíòåãðàëíè ñõåìè. Ùå å èíòåðåñíî çà øèðîêàòà ïóáëèêà.
---------- Äîáàâåí ïîñëåäâàù êîìåíòàð â 00:03 ---------- Îðèãèíàëíèÿò êîìåíòàð å ïóñíàò â 00:01 ----------
Àç ñúì îòãîâîðèë ïðèëè÷íî ñ êîíêðåòåí ßÑÅÍ ïðèìåð, íà âúïðîñà êúäå ñúì âèæäàë 10-15 ëåúðà äúííà ïëàòêà.Last edited by perlsite; 19th January 2010 at 21:47. Reason: Ïðåìàõíàòè ÑÀÌÎ èçëèøíèòå íåùà, êàêòî è "ïîäîáðÿâàíå" òîíà íà òåìàòà.
-
19th January 2010 00:05 #12
ß ìè ïðàòè åäèí òâîé ôàéë ( ïðîåêòèðàí îò òåá), äà âèäèì êàêâî ñè ñúòâîðèë. Ïúê ïîñëå ùå ïðèêàçâàìå.
luboooo@gmail.com"Êàê ãîâîðèò íàø äîðîãîé øåô, åñëè ÷åëîâåê èäèîò, òî ýòî íà äîëãî"
-
19th January 2010 00:19 #13
Íå çíàåõ, ÷å ñìå îòâîðèëè êîíêóðñ çà íîâ ôîðóìåí êëîóí. Âúîáùå íå âèæäàì ñìèñúë äà îòãîâàðÿì íà ÷îâåê, êîéòî íå âèæäà ïî äàëå÷ îò íîñà ñè, çàùîòî "ïðàâè ïå÷àòíè ïëàòêè". È, äà, äúííà ïëàòêà çà êîìïþòúð íèòî ñúì ïðîåêòèðàë, íèòî ñúì ïðîèçâåæäàë. Íî ñå èíòåðåñóâàì êàê ñå ïðàâÿò, çàùîòî òîâà ìè å â êðúãà íà èíòåðåñè, ïî åäíè èëè äðóãè ïðè÷èíè. À ÿ êàæè òè êîëêî ñè ïðàâèë - çà êîÿ òàéâàíñêà èëè êèòàéñêà êîìïàíèÿ ðàáîòèø, ÷å çíàåø ïî-äîáðå îò òÿõ êàê ñè ïðàâÿò ïëàòêèòå?
Asus CH6H|Ryzen 1800X@4.1GHz|4xBLS8G4D32AESTK@3666MHz 14-19-12-36-58-1T|GB GTX1060 3GB OC|MP510 960GB|SS-1000XP|CM STACKER STC-T01-UW1
Thermochill PA120.2+PA120.3+PA140.3|Yate Loon 5xD12SH-12+3xD14SH-12|Laing DDC 2+Toshiba DIYINHK|EK DDC X-Top v2+EK Reservoir|EK Supreme HF #6
-
19th January 2010 00:10 #14Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Î, ùå òè ïðàòÿ íåùî êîåòî ìè å ïîä ðúêà.. äîðè íÿìà äà ñå íàëàãà äà ãî òúðñÿ íà ëàïòîïà.. Åñòåñòâåíî íà ëè÷íî, òúé êàòî íÿìàì íàìåðåíèå äà ñè ìåðÿ ïèøêè âúâ ôîðóìèòå... îùå ïî-ìàëêî äà ñå çàÿæäàì
-
19th January 2010 00:12 #15
-
19th January 2010 00:16 #16Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Â÷åðà âå÷å ìå ïðåäóïðåäè ìîäåðàòîðà... ùå ìå èçãîíÿò ïðåêàëåíî áúðçî.. à ùå âè ëèïñâàì

À è êàæè ìè êàê ÷îâåê äà ðåàãèðà íà íåùî îò âèäà:
Âèæ ñàìî êàêúâ å ïúðâèÿò ïîñò íà rager â òåìàòà... è ñ êàêâî òî÷íî ïîìîãíà íà ìîì÷åòî ñ ïðåöàêàíà äúííà ïëàòêà?...à â ñòóäîâåòå - äîñòèãàò äî 20 ñëîÿ. Çàä ïîëÿðíèÿ êðúã, íàïðèìåð.
-
19th January 2010 00:20 #17
-
19th January 2010 00:28 #18
Ìîì÷åòî ïúðâî äà áåøå èçïîëçâàëî òúðñà÷êàòà íà ôîðóìà, çà äà âèäè, ÷å èìà òàêàâà òåìà è äà ïèøå â íåÿ, âìåñòî äà ïóñêà íîâà. Ïèøå ãî â ïðàâèëàòà íà ôîðóìà, à âúïðîñèòå çà íàäóòè êîíäåíçàòîðè íå ñà îò äíåñ. Ñëÿõ ìó ÿ, êúäåòî òðÿáâà, òàêà ÷å òîâà å ïúðâîòî ïîëåçíî íåùî, êîåòî ñúì íàïðàâèë. Ñëåä òîâà ñå îêàçâà, ÷å â ñúùåñòâóâàùàòà òåìà ñúì ïèñàë äîñòà, êîåòî å âòîðîòî ïîëåçíî íåùî (îáèêíîâåíî è ñïîðåéêè ñ ðàçíè ìàéñòîðè, äåòî ìîðåòî èì å äî êîëåíå, òà ñúì ñâèêíàë âå÷å). Òðåòîòî å, ÷å ìíîãî ëîøî ñå íàõåíäðè äà îáèæäàø äðóã ìîäåðàòîð è àäìèíèñòðàòîð íà ôîðóìà, áåç äà çíàåø, ÷å å òàêúâ, âúïðîñ íà âðåìå å àêî ÿ êàðàø òàêà äà èìà âèäèì åôåêò è îò òîâà.
Asus CH6H|Ryzen 1800X@4.1GHz|4xBLS8G4D32AESTK@3666MHz 14-19-12-36-58-1T|GB GTX1060 3GB OC|MP510 960GB|SS-1000XP|CM STACKER STC-T01-UW1
Thermochill PA120.2+PA120.3+PA140.3|Yate Loon 5xD12SH-12+3xD14SH-12|Laing DDC 2+Toshiba DIYINHK|EK DDC X-Top v2+EK Reservoir|EK Supreme HF #6
-
19th January 2010 00:35 #19Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Ïðåêàëåíî ìíîãî îôòîïèê ñòàíà.
Ïðè÷èíàòà, ÷å íàñî÷èõ ìîì÷åòî êúì ñëîæíîñòòà íà ñòðóêòóðàòà íà äúííàòà ïëàòêà å, ÷å àêî ðåøè äà ñè ðåìîíòèðà äúíîòî ñàì, òî ìîæå ëåñíî äà ãî ïîâðåäè, êàòî íàïðèìåð èçïîëçâà òâúðäå ìîùåí ïîÿëíèê. Èìàõ ïðåäâèä, ÷å íå âñè÷êî ñå âèæäà êàòî ïðîñòî ïîãëåäíåø îòãîðå.
Íÿìàì èäåÿ è êàêúâ òèï êîíäåíçàòîðè ïîëçâà.. ìîæå áè ñà smd. À òîâà äàëè ëåúðèòå ñà 4 èëè 14 íÿìàøå çíà÷åíèå, âàæíîòî å, ÷å íå ñà ñàìî ãîðåí è äîëåí è òðÿáâà äà âíèìàâà êàòî ñâàëÿ ñòàðèòå è ñëàãà íîâèòå...
---------- Äîáàâåí ïîñëåäâàù êîìåíòàð â 00:35 ---------- Îðèãèíàëíèÿò êîìåíòàð å ïóñíàò â 00:30 ----------
Ñëåäîâàòåëíî ñè íàÿñíî, ÷å òîíà ñ êîéòî ïîäõîäè êúì äðóã ïîòðåáèòåë å.. íåäîïóñòèì. Àç ïîíå òàêà ðàçáèðàì ó÷àñòèåòî âúâ ôîðóì, êúäåòî âñåêè íå ïðîñòî ïèøå, à ñå îïèòâà äà ïîìîãíå íà íÿêîãî. À íå ñ ïîäèãðàâàòåëíè êîìåíòàðè. Çàùîòî êîãàòî íÿêîé ìîäåðàòîð èëè àäìèíèñòðàòîð ñå ãàâðè, ñàìî çàùîòî å ìîäåðàòîð ùå íàêàðà ïîòðåáèòåëè, êîèòî çíàÿò èëè ïîíå èñêàò äà ïîìîãíàò, ïðîñòî íÿìà äà ïèøàò. Ïðèìåðè çà òàêèâà ôîðóìè áîë. Êúäåòî îò íàä 10 000 ïîòðåáèòåëÿ íàêðàÿ ïèøåõà 30-íà äóøè, çàðàäè "òåìïåðàìåíòà" íà àäìèíèñòðàòîðèòå
-
19th January 2010 00:58 #20
-
19th January 2010 01:02 #21Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Ñìÿòàì, ÷å âñåêè ñðåäíî èíòåëèãåíòåí ÷îâåê ìîæå äà ïðî÷åòå ñàì öÿëàòà (íîâà) òåìà è äà ïðåöåíè çà ñåáå ñè. Íå ìèñëÿ, ÷å òðÿáâà äà ïðèíèçÿâàì èíòåëåêòà íà äðóãèòå ôîðóìíè ó÷àñòíèöè ñúñ ñìëÿí íàãîòîâî îòãîâîð íà âúïðîñà òè

Ï.Ï. È òè äîñòà ïîìàãàø, ñëàäêîäóìåí ñè, ñïîð íÿìà
-
19th January 2010 01:04 #22
-
19th January 2010 01:23 #23
Çíà÷è... ïîñëåä ìîé ïîñò, ïî ñïîðà çà ìíîãîñëîéíèòå ïëàòêè. Êàêòî ñå òâúðäåøå, âèäåî êàðòèòå áèëè ñ íå çíàì ñè êîëêî ñëîÿ. Åäíà ïðîñòà ñìåòêà: çà äà âëåçå â ñëîòà òÿ òðÿáâà äà å 1.6 ìì äåáåëà. Ñëîåâåòå ñà ñ äåáåëèíà 0.4 ìì ïëþñ 70 ìèêðîíà ìåä ( ïî 35 îò âñÿêà ñòðàíà ), ïðåïðåãà ( ìàòåðèàëà ñ êîéòî ñå ñëåïâàò ñëîåâåòå ) å ñ äåáåëèíà 0.1 ìì. Âúïðîñúò å, êîëêî ñëîéíà ïëàòêà ùå ñå ïîëó÷è?
"Êàê ãîâîðèò íàø äîðîãîé øåô, åñëè ÷åëîâåê èäèîò, òî ýòî íà äîëãî"
-
19th January 2010 01:39 #24Registered User
Join Date: Jan:2010
Location: Ñîôèÿ
Posts: 1,646
Òè ñè ïðîôåñèîíàëèñòòà. È ïðåäïîëàãàì, ÷å òîâà ãî êàçâàø íà áàçà ñ òåõíèêàòà êîÿòî ðàçïîëàãàø?
Äîïóñêàø ëè âåðîÿòíîñò äà ìîæå äà ñå íàïðàâè ïî-òúíêà ïëàòêà, ñ ïî-ìàëêà äåáåëèíà?
Êèòàéöèòå òâúðäÿò, ÷å ìîãàò äà íàïðàâÿò 8 ëåúðà board ñ äåáåëèíà 39.4mils (~1.0ìì).
Ðàçáèðà ñå òîâà ãî êàçâàì ñëåä ïðîèçâîëíî òúðñåíå â Google. Ìîæå è äà áúðêàì çà òåõíîëîãè÷íèòå âúçìîæíîñòòè çà ïðîèçâîäñòâî íà PCB.
Ï.Ï. Ïîíåæå ñïîìåíàõ â íà÷àëîòî, ÷å íÿêúäå èìàì ñïîìåí çà âèäåîêàðòè ñ äîðè ïîâå÷å ëåúðè å ðåäíî äà ïóñíà è íÿêîëêî èíòåðåñíè ëèíêîâå:
http://www.dvhardware.net/article31744.html
Zotac GeForce GTX 260 - êîíêðåòåí ìîäåë, êîéòî (å) ìîæå(ëî) äà ñå êóïè.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvi...X260,6984.htmlBased on brand-new P654 reference design, the latest version of GeForce GTX260 Graphic Card utilizes 26.5CM PCB. All the 14 video memories are put on the front side of PCB, with 10 layers of PCB design. Previous P651 PCB shared by GeForce GTX260/280 was 14 layers.
GeForce GTX260 with New PCB Design (Nvidia's 3rd-generation)
third-generation GTX260 design...
PCD layer count from 10 to 8, and lowering the PCB board height down 1.5cm while keeping the original lengthÊàêòî ñïîìåíàõ ïî-ãîðå, æóðíàëèñòèòå äåòî ïèøàò ïî òàêèâà ñàéòîâå íå ñà îò íàé-êîìïåòåíòíèòå çà äà áúäàò ìåðèëî çà êîðåêòíîñò, îñîáåíî êîãàòî ãîâîðÿò çà "PCD layer count", à ìîæå áè å ïîíÿòèå êîåòî àç ÷óâàì çà ïðúâ ïúòOriginally, the P654 layout reduced the number of PCB layers from 14 to 10 in comparison to the previous design, the P651
Last edited by perlsite; 19th January 2010 at 02:32.
-
19th January 2010 08:46 #25
Ïî ïðèíöèï å âúçüìîæíî, äà ñå íàïðàâè è òàêàâà ïëàòêà. Íå è çà ìàñîâî ïðîèçâîäñòâî. Êàêòî òè ñïîìåíàõ è íà ËÑ, îíàçè 12 ñëîéíà äúííà ïëàòêà íà ãèãàáàéò, íå å áàø 12 ñëîéíà. à ñè ÷èñòî è ïðîñòî 8 ñëîéíà + 2 ìåäíè ëèñòà ñ äåáåëèíà 70 ìèêðîíà ( 2 oz copper ). Ìîãà äà òè ïîêàæà, êîëêîòî èñêàø ñïàì å-ìàéëè, îò êèòàéñêè ïëàòêàäæèéíèöè, â êîèòî ñå òâúðäè, ÷å ìîãàò äà ìè íàïðàâÿò è ñâèðêà. À äàëè å òàêà
.
Ïðîäúëæàâàø äà ñå ïðàâèø íà óäàðåí...Last edited by LUBO_1; 19th January 2010 at 12:21.
"Êàê ãîâîðèò íàø äîðîãîé øåô, åñëè ÷åëîâåê èäèîò, òî ýòî íà äîëãî"






Reply With Quote

Äðàçíåù LOG â Ìèêðîòèê
6th May 2023, 12:03 in Ìðåæè